Each output is also an input.
Before his first show in Mexico, Rafiq Bhatia and Ian Chang they talk about Out Intothe disk with which Son Lux He reduced his palette to find his purest tones. A conversation about what they learned scoring films like Everything Everywhere All at Oncewhy generative artificial intelligence is not serving music and what it means to understand identity as something in constant flux.
Son Lux was born as the solo project of Ryan Lott and became a trio when the guitarist joined Rafiq Bhatia and the drummer Ian Chang. Since then they have built one of the most difficult sounds to classify in contemporary music, a meeting point between art pop, electronics, post-rock and chamber music, where a fragile voice can coexist with a wall of synthesizers and drums that sound both organic and digital.
His music has always been full of color. It is cinematic, versatile and changing, and that is why it is not surprising that cinema has sought them out. His score for Everything Everywhere All at Once earned them a nomination for Oscarand since then they have set to music Thunderbolts and now Your Mother, Your Mother, Your Mother. In parallel, the band has made technology an extension of the body, never a replacement, with tools such as sensory percussion Ianwhich expands what a drummer can express without playing for him.
With Out Intotheir new album, do something unexpected: remove instead of add. After years of throwing all the colors on the wall, they looked for a simpler and more direct palette, inspired by the music they themselves listen to, from Bob Marley and the Wailers to J Dilla and D’Angelo.
We talk with Rafiq and Ian days after his first show in Mexico, at the Indie Rocks Forum!a date that stops Ianwho has lived in Mexico City for three years, is almost a concert at home.
Indie Rocks!: Ryan said that Out Into It goes places the band has never been before in energy, attitude and color. That last word stuck with me. Before talking about what the album sounds like, what has been coloring your work lately to give this album a different tone than anything you’ve done?
Rafiq: What a beautiful question. While you were describing it I thought of something: when you mix colors, the resulting tone is usually more complicated and can quickly become nothing. If you’ve ever mixed a lot of paints, you know you end up with something undifferentiated.
In the past we had the tendency to throw many colors at the wall. It was music full of life, very vibrant, but many things were happening at the same time. Many people ask us if making music for film changed the way we compose. And yes, but almost in the opposite direction than you would expect. In a movie there is the opportunity for that cinematic greatness, and throwing all those colors canto sustain a story and take it to another level.
Have that opportunity It made us ask ourselves: what do we want to do on a record that we can’t do on a film? we love to Bob Marley and the Wailersto J Dillato D’Angelo. Much of the music we listen to is more direct, uses fewer colors and lets you live within the same cyclical fragment for a long time. With Out Into We tried to preserve those original tones throughout the process and work with a simpler and more direct palette. We’re really excited for people to hear what that does in terms of color.
GO!: I love being able to express more with less. On the other hand, I would describe their music as versatile and cinematic, and I think that was exactly what led them to score films like Everything Everywhere All at Once, Thunderbolts and now Your Mother, Your Mother, Your Mother. Ian, what do you love most about scoring a film and what do you love least?
Ian: Film, unlike music, is almost always a much larger project. It takes a lot of teams and people to build a vision and create a piece of work, and it feels great to be part of a great team working towards something they all believe in. Seeing how our part, the music, takes on another dimension within something bigger is a beautiful experience, especially when the film begins to take shape and we fine-tune the music.
There comes a point where you feel like it’s working, that the emotions that need to be conveyed are being conveyed. Rafiq and I have had moments like this: you are scoring a scene and, because of everything the rest of the crew has done, the filming, the actors, the script, you end up crying because you really feel that something is going through you. That’s very special.
The most difficult thing, and I wouldn’t say it’s what I like the least, because just because it’s difficult it’s rewarding, is getting it exactly right. The directors we have worked with are very different, but in one way or another they can be very specific and demanding with what they want. So the hardest thing is to leave your ego at the door. We might do a scene six, seven, eight times before it works, and you have to get comfortable with making a lot of music that doesn’t end up working. The director of Your Mother, Your Mother, Your Mother he recently called it “killing babies.” It can be hard, but it’s part of the process and I’ve learned to embrace it.
GO!: With this entire catalog behind them, I feel like they have always been a band that uses technology to serve the human hand, never to replace it. She is always pushed to master her craft. Ian, sensory percussion doesn’t play for you, but it opens up a range of possibilities for you to express yourself. That’s why I’m curious: how do you see generative artificial intelligence from where you are? Is it the next tool in the lineage of sampler or the synthesizer, or does it feel like something different?
A: Historically we have embraced new technologiesnologies. Much of our favorite music comes from the intersection between where technology is and its limits. You can see Jimi Hendrix taking the sound of the guitar beyond the recognizable and finding there a poetic analogy of how we all try, and ultimately fail, to communicate what’s going on inside of us. Pushing technology to its limits can be a beautiful metaphor for how we relate and communicate with each other.
All of this makes it even more discouraging, in a very profound way, to see how generative AI is entering the conversation and landscape.ma of music. Music is not only something we do to create, communicate and express things with each other, it is also a way of life that allows us to continue exploring the limits of that communication. It is discouraging that this technology is being introduced primarily as a replacement for people’s work, for the benefit of a few and not those who do things.
As pointed out Ian when I talked about itWe recently asked: who is asking for this? Who wants it and who benefits? These are important questions that must be answered with any technology. All three of us are fascinated by technology and what it can do, but in this case there is a lot to worry about. Right now it doesn’t feel like it’s being used to serve any of the purposes of music, or at least the reasons why the three of us started making it.
GO!: I totally agree, and that’s why I wanted to bring up this question: it’s the type of conversation we need to have. Let’s go back to the album. They have said that Out Into It tries to lose us and find ourselves, that each moment is both an exit and an entrance. That hit me hard, because we live in a moment that insists on selling us a finished version of who we are supposed to be, and you seem to describe the opposite. How do you understand identity?
YO: Great question! Maybe it’s a bit of a shame to you that they sell us a finished version of ourselves for future interviews (laughs), because in reality we are all experiencing transitions. For me, identity is too often described as something fixed, something you are born with. I think it is a process.
Personally, it has been like this for me: I was born in Hong Kong, I lived for about 20 years in the United States and now I live in Mexico. It’s a constant state of discovery, and I don’t think that’s scary. It can be a wonderful thing. I guess it could be both.
GO!: OK. We do not have to treat it as a fixed destination, but as a transit. Now let’s land this at home. I’m also in Mexico, and you bring your show for the first time to the country, to the Indie Rocks Forum! How do you feel about playing in Mexico? What do you expect from this show and what can we fans expect?
YO: I’m very, very excited. I’ve been living here for three years, it already feels like my home, and it’s our first time playing in Mexico. We have always received a responseVery warm and strong people here. You can expect a lot from the new album, but also surprises and old songs. And come with an open mind, because we are not a band that is satisfied with playing the songs exactly as they are on the album. There will be times to stretch and experiment.
I’ve been to concerts here and the audience is the best. Surely you know this, and many bands will have told you. I really want to give them everything.
A: We are very excited. It’s going to be something very nice and special. Besides, Ryan and I have not visited Ian since he moved. We have heard nothing but wonderful things about the city, and we arrived with a lot of admiration and respect for what it represents as a global center of culture and art, and for its entire history. That moves us and inspires us. It’s an honor to play for you.
GO!: That’s what I love about music: it brings people together no matter where they come from, and that’s magic. I have many more questions, but we’re out of time. Hopefully we can talk soon, maybe at the show. Thank you very much, it was a pleasure.
YO: Thank you, Andremar.
